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posted by [personal profile] tadorna at 01:30pm on 01/08/2006 under , , , , , ,
Sorry I haven't posted for so long. Sometimes I think of things to say, but then I realise that these things are not very interesting, after all. Sometimes I think of things to say, but then I realise that, to say what I want to say properly, I need to do lots of finding and copying and pasting and linking, and then it's bedtime, and stuff.

So instead, I've been lurking, and reading, and occasionally commenting. I shall now commence to ramble.


On the bus to and from work, I sit and listen to my iPod, and sometimes I think about fandom and wish I was a vidder, or that I could commission people to do vids for me, or something. There's a funny sort of relationship between music and fandom, and between music and writing. Sometimes I find myself listening to a piece of music, and wishing I could write something that had the same feeling, the same emotion, the same indefinable something, that I'm getting from this music. I suppose that's the sort of impulse that leads to so many songfics being written. Argh, cursed form! *makes sign of evil eye*


Personally, I tend to find songfics clumsy and awkward to read -- the lyrics, shorn of the music, become flat and lifeless. If I actually don't know the song referred to, then it's difficult to find any significance in the words at all. They just butt up against the author's own words, being almost-but-not-quite relevant, intruding on the story.

It's difficult to mix writing and music anyway, I think. Our emotional reaction to music is very personal, and it's hard to communicate that to the reader, who may not share that emotional relationship. You tend to get a lot of music in fic, even non-songfic, and I must admit, it often throws me out of the story. I just find myself thinking, ah, this is the author's fave new band then...

It's not just fic, either. For example, my friend [livejournal.com profile] galactic_jack (hi Jack, sorry to take your name in vain like this, but I'm sure you don't mind) hates the film Garden State with all the pure white-hot hatred of a thousand burning suns. His hatred is all encompassing, and his rants on the subject have entertained all who know him, but he particularly dislikes the bit where whatsisname, the main bloke wot played JD in Scrubs (I believe that's his official title) is in the hospital waiting room, and the other one, the girl one out of Star Wars (again, official) goes, "'Ere, just have a listen to this here band The Shins, they're great, they are!" And he goes, "You're right, they are great. Everyone, you must all go out and buy The Shins immediately, but not until you've finished watching my film kthx!"

Or something. I actually really like The Shins, and I don't hate Garden State all that much, but I knew what he meant.

Where was I? Oh yes. Not that it's all bad! No. My own attempts to incorporate music in my fic have, of course, never been anything less than brilliant, because I am a genius. I participated in [livejournal.com profile] shanalle's Two Lines challenge (in which you're assigned two lines of a random song, and have to write a fic based on them) a few years ago, and that was lots of fun, notwithstanding the fact that it was incredibly, handchewingly difficult! Then I went all self-indulgent and stuffed it full of lots of other music that had nothing to do with anything, and then I went and did another really clever thing that no one noticed but it didn't matter because I knew it was there. Er. And that's enough of that.

But yeah. Self indulgent. I think that's often the problem with music in fanfic. In fiction, even, because professional writers aren't immune to it. (Everyone, this is your cue to come up with loads of references to music in fiction that worked really well and made you feel special and fuzzy). But I think music is often essential to the process of writing. Do you have songs that relate to certain fics in your mind, even if they don't actually feature in the story? Whenever I hear The Wicker Man, by Pulp, I think of my first Lotrips fic, Holding the Pose. Although, come to think of it, I think that's the only one that has a really strong connection in my mind.

I particularly like finding songs for characters, though. It's a good iPod-on-the-bus game. Some characters have more songs than others. I have discovered that many, many songs, for instance, seem to be about RayK from due South. There are far fewer about Fraser. Incidentally, I spent an entire bus journey devising the most wonderful due South musical. It would have been an incredibly moving story of love and angst, and all the songs would have been from the The Magnetic Fields' back catalogue. Seriously, it was a great idea! Why does nobody ever understand my unique vision? *sigh*

The songs don't have to be about the characters. They just have to fit them, in some obscure way that feels right in my head. I spent an hour last week trying to find a song for Captain Jack Harkness from Doctor Who. It turned out to be The Modern Way by The Killers. Don't ask me.


Yesterday I found some songs for the Doctor himself. They are as follows:

1. One of These Things First by Nick Drake

2. A song by Augie March wot I don't know wot it's called because [livejournal.com profile] sophrosyne31 kindly put it on a CD for me but forgot to write the title. Does anyone know? The chorus goes "Not money, not flesh, not happiness / But this, which makes me sing." Anyone? No? Anyway, it's good.

I demand that someone make a vid for me out of one of these songs! I demands it, I does!

Naked As We Came by Iron and Wine is also a very good song, but it doesn't seem to fit anyone in any fandom. I just thought I'd mention it.


Hmm. Maybe when I get some time I'll upload some music so you can hear what I'm going on about. I'm reminded that [livejournal.com profile] damson tagged me a million years ago to do that music meme that was floating around. I actually did start it but never got round to choosing all the songs. I saved the bit I started though. Here it is:

1. Iron & Wine - Naked As We Came
2. ELO - Mr Blue Sky
3. The Delays - Valentine (probably)
4. Dolly Parton - Jolene
5. Morrissey - First Of The Gang To Die
6. The Only Ones - Another Girl, Another Planet

Can't really remember the specifics of why I chose these now. They were all things that were going round in my head at the time, for one reason or another.

Oh yeah, and I meant to announce the fact that my website has upped and moved. It is now here:
www.tadorna.net
Please to be updating of your links and bookmarks if you so desire.

I will now go away and be quiet.
There are 23 comments on this entry. (Reply.)
 
posted by [identity profile] rossywar.livejournal.com at 01:08pm on 01/08/2006
Mr Blue Sky is one of those songs that I never think of, but when I hear it I'm like, "Oh, hell yes!" Which is probably one of the principal reasons why I enjoyed that episode of Doctor Who so much. :) It mostly reminds me of a morning, when my alarm radio has gone off and I had settled back to sleep/trying to wake up with Lauren Laverne prattling on in the background. She then played Mr Blue Sky and it just cut through my sleep and made me sit up in bed and say out loud, "Is this? ELO?" So, it proerly woke me up and got me our of bed without making me grumpy which is a phenomonal achievement. I'm not sure why I've rambled on to you about Mr Blue Sky, but there you go.
 
posted by [identity profile] sheldrake.livejournal.com at 12:41pm on 02/08/2006
I'm not sure why I've rambled on to you about Mr Blue Sky, but there you go.

Well, I enjoyed it. Rambling is catching, I think. :)
 
posted by [identity profile] bunnysquee.livejournal.com at 02:13pm on 01/08/2006
have you heard the white stripes version of 'jolene'? i can upload it for you tonight if you haven't ...
 
posted by [identity profile] sheldrake.livejournal.com at 12:42pm on 02/08/2006
Yes, I've got that one. Thanks for the offer! I like that one too - I just think it's a great song. :)
 
posted by [identity profile] galactic-jack.livejournal.com at 03:06pm on 01/08/2006
Ha, you always take my name in vain, sweed'art.

I think my irritation with Garden Grate (official, according to me) is distilled in that scene you mention. It's really the most overt way for a film-maker to show us his "wares". It's clearly what Zach Braff thinks (though he'd say feels). Nowt wrong with including your own favourite sounds in a film/work/whatever but there are ways of doing it. Garden is a greatest hits collection of Braff's own choice cuts: that 'aint a script, it's a calling card to cool. The film is choc-full of such nauseous instances. Yuck. The other really atrocious bit has Star Wars girl spazzing out because it's original, or summink. Feck the fuck off!! Anyway, we've been here before, so I won't go on ;)

I think the key is to include what the heck you (plural) like musically, but just don't comment on it yourself. Take self-indulgent authority out of the equation. A character saying they like a band/book/film/etc in the work itself can work, but most often it seems transparent.
 
posted by [identity profile] sheldrake.livejournal.com at 12:43pm on 02/08/2006
Hmm, this is all very interesting. I thought i had something to say about it, but I can't remember what.
 
posted by [identity profile] birdgerhl.livejournal.com at 05:07pm on 01/08/2006
Sometimes I find myself listening to a piece of music, and wishing I could write something that had the same feeling, the same emotion, the same indefinable something, that I'm getting from this music.
hahaha. last week i wrote (myself) a whole rant/whinge along the lines of why oh why can't i write like thom yorke's new album sounds, weep whine wail. er, because he is a genius, and i am not? :)

duckeeeeeee! hello!

b.x :D
 
posted by [identity profile] sheldrake.livejournal.com at 12:46pm on 02/08/2006
Hello!

I know what you mean, but. But. Sometimes reaching after something like that, trying for something you know you're never going to acheive, can get you somewhere entirely different, but also good. I reckons.
 
posted by [identity profile] birdgerhl.livejournal.com at 08:44pm on 02/08/2006
true.

*sighs*

but why can't i do it, why not, why can't i write like that cd sounds, it's so icy and raw and perfect why not why not why not

incidentally, there is a really cringe-making section regarding music in "the time traveller's wife", don't know if you've read it. i galloped through it on first read, it wasn't until the end that i realised that it was shit. i have re-read it a couple of times since, trying to figure out why it pissed me off so much. grr.

b.x :)
 
posted by [identity profile] sheldrake.livejournal.com at 07:27pm on 03/08/2006
No, I've not read that. My mum recommended it, but then she recommended The Da Vinci Code, which I also haven't read. She actually leant me that one sometime last year - every now and then I pick it up, look at it and go, 'yeah, I've got better things to do'.
 
posted by [identity profile] birdgerhl.livejournal.com at 03:45pm on 06/08/2006
my mum asked me if i'd read the da vinci code, and i nearly had a fit. pah!! she'll be asking me if i've read h***y p****r next!!!

b.x >:(
 
posted by [identity profile] lobelia321.livejournal.com at 05:15pm on 01/08/2006
but then I realise that these things are not very interesting, after all.
But Shelzie!! You know that you must then refine the art of being boring! Interest shminterest. The main reason I bought a copy of Chekhov's short stories at the Amnesty International bookshop was that one of his stories is called 'A boring story'. And I liked it!

Boring boring boring, long live boring!

(Um, can you tell that I'm still in a bit of a cantankerous mood?)

songfics
I am never bothered by lyrics. This may go back to being imprinted with Anglophone music when I was so young that I still didn't know any English. It spoiled a lot of songs for me, learning English. I still love songs where I don't understand a word, e.g. Issa Bagayogo from Mali. Mostly, the words drift in and out of my consciousness vis-a-vis a song. But the mood!! Particular songs are imprinted with a particular fic mood for me. And it's not so much the song causing the fic but both intertwining and the fic worming its way into the song. Um, this led to me writing godfic in my head: sitting in church two weeks ago and fantasising about naked footballers to the hymns.

Whenever I hear The Wicker Man, by Pulp, I think of my first Lotrips fic, Holding the Pose.,/i>
111

I don't know that song (I think) but I have a sheaf of songs that do that for me. Not their lyrics, only their tunes. This goes all the way back to A Perfect Day (which is 24/7 by the Artful Dodger and Heaven is a Half-Pipe by I forget whom).

You have a website?? Who knew.

Dandy Warhols is John Sheppard on a desert island shagging a wraith.
 
posted by [identity profile] sheldrake.livejournal.com at 07:32pm on 03/08/2006
Hm, interesting take on lyrics, that.

I don't know that song (I think)

Probably not, it's a bit obscure. Actually, in my case, it totally relates to the fic, because it's about a river that runs through Sheffield, and that's the river at the beginning of the fic, in Sean's dream. But also the atmosphere of the song, which is all sort of grimy and city-dirty. And now the music itself, which is sort of low-key and melancholy, has become the sound of that fic to me, so it's not just about the lyrics.
 
posted by [identity profile] lobelia321.livejournal.com at 04:14pm on 05/08/2006
Well, that's nice if a snatch of lyric matches up with OMG canon (Sheffield!!!). And you still have that icon...! Oh, the nostalgia. But what am I saying? It's Caravaggio, *pinches self*.
 
posted by [identity profile] lugna-vatten.livejournal.com at 06:54pm on 01/08/2006
It was Kate Bush wot did it for me. I heard 'The Seventh Wave' side of 'Hounds Of Love' and knew that I could never, ever, EVER come up with anything (in any media) that would come one teenyweensy infinitely-tiny-minisucle micro-particle close to being as perfect as that is.

So I kinda stopped.

Damn you Bush. But thanks, too.
 
posted by [identity profile] sheldrake.livejournal.com at 07:36pm on 03/08/2006
I suppose it depends how you respond to that feeling of 'I'm never going to do anything this good'. Like I said somewhere up there, I tend to think that you might as well try and you'll probably end up with something totally different to what you strived for, and nowhere near the stuff produced by people you really admire -- but hopefully it'll have its own merits, and be good on its own terms. Well... that's what I think on good days, anyway. :)
 
posted by [identity profile] shrinetolust.livejournal.com at 05:14am on 08/08/2006
Wow. I keep thinking the same thing, that I wish I knew how to video or that I could get someone to do exactly what I wanted for me. There's a Troy-related vid I wanted to do that by the time I figure out how to do it no one will care anymore. *sigh*

I also get inspired by songs. Totally. I'm sure some of my fics have come about because of it, and not necessarily directly from the lyrics--sometimes it's just a mood thing.

A Killers song seems apropos for Captain Jack but I'm not sure the Killers actually did that song? *checks google* :P

I have to say I'm kind of with galactic_jack there...though I don't think I hated Garden State quite that much, I still thought it had a self-awareness of its hip new-wave qualities that I found kind of grating. Elizabethtown was supposed to be some pale rip-off of Garden State, but copious flaws and all, I preferred E-town. And of course this had nothing to do with my unwavering lust love for Orlando Bloom. *G*

I have used song lyrics in fic, now that I think on it, and while I think people found said lyrics amusing, I don't think it had quite the same resonance as for readers who'd actually heard the song. Maybe you can only do song!fic if you include a file with the song on it? :P
 
posted by [identity profile] sheldrake.livejournal.com at 06:22am on 08/08/2006
omg no, of course not - that song was by Kaiser Chiefs! Agh! I was going to say I can't believe no one called me on that, but then maybe no one else made it that far down the post... ;)

And of course, now I've done all that whinging about song fics, I've gone and written one. Well, sort of.

 
posted by [identity profile] sophrosyne31.livejournal.com at 02:32am on 12/08/2006
oh woops, i never know the titles to any augie march songs, but i'll find out for you. *makes note*

i was thinking about this last night, and how convenient that now i'm reading an old post of yours as i catch up on news, because i wanted to write a short story about someone who discovers that the neighbour upstairs plays exactly the same music as the main character, and then i realised that this is very unwieldy in a short story because you have to reference very specific songs in order to make the point, but how do you do that? you can't just name the title. so i wanted to say something about the sound of it, but as everyone knows writing about music is the hardest thing in the world (even sex is easier). so i am foiled, at least temporarily.

but yes indeed, there are songs which -- i don't know, the emotion or the sweep or the colour of the song infiltrated everything about certain fics or characters. there's a smashing pumpkins song which is utterly, utterly elijah-in-l.a. for me. it's not so much the lyrics but the feeling. song lyrics do usually look stupid written down; that's why a song is such a marvellous creation, because it is words and emotions and sounds and concept and momentum all mixed up together, it's astounding.

uh, you can tell i'm out of practice with lj, i have no idea how to write an intelligent comment.

*SINGS it instead*
 
posted by [identity profile] sheldrake.livejournal.com at 10:07am on 12/08/2006
I found out with teh Google! AND THEN I WROTE A SONGFIC HAHAHA!

as everyone knows writing about music is the hardest thing in the world (even sex is easier). so i am foiled, at least temporarily.

Yes! Which is probably all I really needed to say in this post, but instead I ramble on until everyone cried and went away.

that's why a song is such a marvellous creation, because it is words and emotions and sounds and concept and momentum all mixed up together, it's astounding.

Isn't it? :)

I thought this was a very intelligent comment, and perfectly in tune.

 
posted by [identity profile] sophrosyne31.livejournal.com at 10:51am on 12/08/2006
you know i'm glad you googled that song, because even though i said i'd find out for you, we both know i totally would never have done so.

songfic! you are bold indeed, you poetaster, you.
 
posted by [identity profile] sheldrake.livejournal.com at 11:12am on 12/08/2006
you know i'm glad you googled that song, because even though i said i'd find out for you, we both know i totally would never have done so.

HAHAHAHAHAHA! True.

We are having a lot of conversations at once, aren't we? So I will just say, yes, you're right, oh ok, thank you, really? Haha, I know, all right then, huzzah!

There. that was all our conversations in one go.

Wot are you doing online at this time, anyway. Not that I know what time it is, but I'm sure you ought not to be up, young lady.
 
posted by [identity profile] sophrosyne31.livejournal.com at 12:58pm on 12/08/2006
We are having a lot of conversations at once, aren't we? So I will just say, yes, you're right, oh ok, thank you, really? Haha, I know, all right then, huzzah!


hah! well, you started this frenzy with your unwarrantable comment-answering, and then i was seized by a kind of mad envy, and took up the gauntlet and answered back, and now i'm exhausted and it's only 11pm. you're right, i shouldn't be up, NOW, it's time for bed!

duckie i just watched moll flanders and it was VERY SAD and i actually just about CRIED. this goes to show i am a feeble and delicate flower.

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