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posted by [personal profile] tadorna at 10:44am on 08/02/2009 under , , , ,
I haven't been posting much lately. Normally I would start off with lots of excuses and apologies for my appalling behaviour, but I'm trying to cut down on that sort of thing.

Nothing to report about the job stuff at present. Nothing much to report about anything, really.

I've said it before, but I need to stop wasting vast swathes of time reading the comments posted to blogs and online news articles. It's like I'm deliberately poisoning myself with other people's stupidity. There are lots of other things I could be doing: knitting, practising the piano, writing... hoovering.

That said, I have been somewhat preoccupied of late by the Carol Thatcher affair. Honestly, I don't even how to begin talking about it. Maybe the idea that somebody who has a high-profile job in the UK media in 2009, and whose parent ran the country for over a decade, could somehow have missed the fact that it's offensive to go around calling black people 'golliwogs'. How is that even possible? Or the fact that, having discovered this fact, that person would not simply apologise and move on. Maybe the fact that I'm really tired of hearing people say, "Oh, but in her day, these things were acceptable. It was just a lovely toy." Here's the thing. I'm 34. I had one of those lovely toys as a child (a present from an elderly relative, I think) and I seem to remember I was quite fond of it. I saw the logo on the jamjar at breakfast every morning. I didn't think these things were racist at the time (I didn't think about them much at all), but that doesn't mean they weren't. I was a child. I was also a child in a culturally diverse, working class area of North London. Racism was there, in the street and in the playground, and it was vicious. It surrounded all of us, and yet for me it could be something in the background, something always off to one side. It buzzed in my ear, but I was able to wave it away like an annoying fly. Because I was white, and that meant I never really had to see it. I could go to school and play with my friends, few of whom were white, and come home and play with Golly (who, incidentally, was not allowed out of the house. I don't think I ever questioned why. I'd actually forgotten that until now). I was not forced to make connections.

Eventally I grew up.

There was some Tory nitwit on the radio bemoaning the loss of these delightful toys and that lovely whimsical word, to the 'PC Brigade'. When Carol and I were children, he said, nobody thought there was anything wrong with them. Nobody. Right. Carol Thatcher is what, mid-50s? If you're that age, there has been a sizeable black population living in this country for your whole life. But when you say 'us', you mean white people. Say what you mean.

These things we cling to are not valuable. They are racist caricatures of racist caricatures, and they hurt people. There is nothing not racist about them. The lengths some people are now going to to prove that their beloved toys are nothing whatsoever to do with black people, and never were, that they somehow exist in a vacuum, are incredible to me. You can't make things nice and unproblematic just by wanting it. Honestly, people. Let go of this stuff now. Is it really that important to you? It's degrading and embarrassing. Grow up.

Ok, just had to get that off my chest. I'm definitely going to do my ironing now.
There are 30 comments on this entry. (Reply.)
coeur_de_noir: (Default)
posted by [personal profile] coeur_de_noir at 10:57am on 08/02/2009
That is a really well thought out comment.

Australia is so casually racist in our language and behaviour - largely, I think, because we still percieve ourselves as largely anglo. These issues will start to surface here soon, IMO.
 
posted by [identity profile] sheldrake.livejournal.com at 11:56am on 08/02/2009
Thank you. :)

Yeah, it's amazing the crap that floats to the surface when stuff gets a bit stirred up, isn't it? Disturbing.
ext_42507: (quit turning everything into a punchline)
posted by [identity profile] ia-ne.livejournal.com at 11:09am on 08/02/2009
I've said it before, but I need to stop wasting vast swathes of time reading the comments posted to blogs and online news articles. It's like I'm deliberately poisoning myself with other people's stupidity.

Every so often, even though I know better, I will read the comments on imdb.com. Deliberately poisoning is a very apt description! It's like I don't believe just how stupid people can be and have to make sure again and again...
 
posted by [identity profile] sheldrake.livejournal.com at 11:57am on 08/02/2009
I know! It's not like I don't come into enough stupid people in everday life as it is, now I have to go and look for them on the internet?
 
posted by [identity profile] tevere.livejournal.com at 11:22am on 08/02/2009
In Indonesia there used to be a brand of toothpaste called 'Darkie' -- because, geddit, black people's teeth look really white! A few years ago someone in marketing clued up and changed it to 'Darlie'... but left the logo, a caricature of a grinning black man in a top hat, as it was. Nobody I polled seemed terribly concerned about it, and some even took it as an opportunity to warn me against the 'Nigerians' (common belief seems to be that all Africans in Indonesia are from Nigeria), who would steal my money and sell me drugs...

Sigh.
 
posted by [identity profile] sheldrake.livejournal.com at 11:58am on 08/02/2009
Oh dear. :( Sigh indeed...
 
posted by [identity profile] galactic-jack.livejournal.com at 11:22am on 08/02/2009
There was a bit of a furore over the Gollywog comment, but nothing on the level of Brand/Ross, when she clearly should have reprimanded far more harshly. Is it levels of media/public interest? As in Brand/Ross = bigger personalities?

Either way, your thoughts act for me as entirely apt last words on the topic. Nail on head.

And, I do hope the spiders have gone away. ;)
 
posted by [identity profile] sheldrake.livejournal.com at 12:11pm on 08/02/2009
Thanks. :)

I love how people are now saying, "Why is poor Carol victimised, when nasty Ross gets to keep his job?"

Oh, I have so many answers to this. Bear with me.

JR was trying to be funny, it went wrong, people were hurt by it. He was called on it, he said he was sorry, he was punished and then allowed to go back to work.

CT was trying to be funny, it went wrong, people were hurt by it. She was called on it, she told them she was sorry they couldn't take a joke, she was sacked from the show. She then demanded that people apologise to her.

This is leaving aside the fact that these are two HUGELY different issues. It's one thing to upset someone by being rude to them, it's another to casually use racist language when you're doing it.

I think the BBC's actions were entirely appropriate here. Had she just said, "Oh my god, I'm so sorry, I didn't realise," things might have been different. She dug this hole for herself.
ext_15194: floral background with hobbit's journal written diagonally across the front (Default)
posted by [identity profile] hobbituk.livejournal.com at 12:27pm on 08/02/2009
The thing I am uncomfortable about with your CT/JR comparison is that JR was crassly obnoxious in a public broadcast to an audience of millions of people. And is still largely unrepentant as far as I can see. Oh, he has "apologised" but I don't get the impression he understands why he should. Or that he won't do it again, as long as he thinks he can get away with it.

As far as I can make out, CT made her comment to about 12 people in an "off duty" area. Maybe someone should have just said to her face at the time that what she'd said was racist and unacceptable and that it offended them. I don't think CT would ever say she is sorry when publicly backed into a corner. She is, after all, her mother's daughter. But she probably would have if someone actually there had pulled her on it. I'm somewhat surprised someone like Jo Brand didn't actually...

The BBC should have still sacked her (no loss as far as I am concerned!) but instead they ensured that her racist comment was effectively broadcast to the world, including the person mentioned. Who must surely feel hurt.

 
posted by [identity profile] sheldrake.livejournal.com at 01:18pm on 08/02/2009
Well, I think we might have to agree to disagree about JR's feelings on the matter, but we can never really know what goes on inside people's heads. I'm aware he's not everyone's cup of tea, and I do understand why. I do think what he did was stupid. I just -- personally, I really do think the important thing is that he made that public apology. Carol Thatcher didn't, and it's like saying 'I don't really care that I hurt you. It's your fault you were hurt.' If she'd apologised, properly, and secretly continued to think racist thoughts, she'd still have been an idiot. But that apology would have done some real good.

It seems a bit unclear what actually happened in that green room. Some people are saying Jo Brand did call her on it (I agree, it's what I'd have done, I hope), others that nobody did. But in my opinion, the workplace is a public space. If you say things where people can hear them, you have to be prepared to take the consequences. These people weren't her friends, she wasn't at home. It's not surprising that someone might have left that room and said to someone else, "You'll never guess what that Carol Thatcher said!" Things have a habit of getting out.

And while I'd like to give her the benefit of the doubt and say that she'd have apologised if someone had called her on it, I really don't believe she would have done. I think her reaction would have been exactly the same. The reason I think this is because I've been in this situation at work, I was person who pointed it out (I did it quite nicely, I'm not great at being confrontational!), and that was the exact reaction I got. "It was just a joke, I'm not a racist, I haven't done anything wrong". No apology. And unfortunately I've seen that same thing happen over and over again.

As I say, it's hard to be really clear on what exactly happened and why (and yeah, it's hardly news that Carol Thatcher's a bit of an idiot), but (given that it did get out) what really bothers me is all the people who've now crawled out of the woodwork and revealed themselves to be just as insensitive and racist and idiotic. Just makes me sad, that's all. :(
Edited Date: 2009-02-08 01:22 pm (UTC)
 
posted by [identity profile] galactic-jack.livejournal.com at 12:13am on 09/02/2009
But there is the thing of Ross/Brand's comments being directed at Sachs, and by direct association his granddaughter (although, yes, in a broadcast), and it was kind of limited and specific to those two, however silly they both were, and however many Daily Mail readers got up-in-arms about it and took it further. With Thatcher (and again although her comment was made to/about one person, Jo-Wilfried Tsonga, and was therefore specific) the nature of what she said implicitly offends an entire race, by association. I feel there's some difference in it.

In a broadcast or "off duty", it's the word. And it's also the nature of it, its intent and what surrounds it that's the issue.
 
posted by [identity profile] sheldrake.livejournal.com at 12:14pm on 08/02/2009
Oh, and the spider is actually still there. We are ignoring each other.
birdsflying: (Default)
posted by [personal profile] birdsflying at 11:38am on 08/02/2009
I am on an epic quest for Greasemonkey scripts that will kill comment sections off. I have one for Youtube and a kill-filter for LJ but yeah, I am right there with you.

I spend a lot of time on the Guardian website and I have two rules - never read CiF and never respond to CiF. Same goes for the BBC HYS. I am not always good at keeping these rules, mind.
 
posted by [identity profile] sheldrake.livejournal.com at 12:13pm on 08/02/2009
Oh, I would love that. I just cannot seem to stop myself, and it always leaves me feeling horrible and depressed.
 
posted by [identity profile] mirabile-dictu.livejournal.com at 01:46pm on 08/02/2009
Thank you for this post. And I agree it's fatal to read comments to most news blogs.
 
posted by [identity profile] sheldrake.livejournal.com at 02:19pm on 08/02/2009
No problem. :) Just felt the need to talk about it and get some of that stuff out of my head.
 
posted by [identity profile] purple-hazed.livejournal.com at 01:49pm on 08/02/2009
Well done and well said! I am also shocked that my gran had a fox fur with the head still on. That is offensive and disgusting too!








 
posted by [identity profile] sheldrake.livejournal.com at 02:22pm on 08/02/2009
Thanks. :) My grandma actually had one of those things too! It used to scare me. I'm not a vegetarian, but I can't quite see the appeal of walking round with a dead thing's face hanging over one of your shoulders...
 
posted by [identity profile] yellow-oranges.livejournal.com at 05:39pm on 08/02/2009
hopefully racism will be a thing of the Past one day. I hope it's soon.

Noooo don't read comments willy nilly! Most disheartening.
 
posted by [identity profile] sheldrake.livejournal.com at 05:29pm on 09/02/2009
Yes indeed, that would be nice. Like Star Trek if it wasn't filtered through the 60s.
msilverstar: (drowning in splooge)
posted by [personal profile] msilverstar at 05:42pm on 08/02/2009
People say hurtful things, I'm still having trouble not saying "gyp" when I mean "cheat". But apologizing is the right response, rather defending the hurtful things we say, insisting that our casual racist slurs are more important than other people's feelings. People think pinching women's asses was a way of expressing friendship: damn straight that's not politically correct any more!
 
posted by [identity profile] sheldrake.livejournal.com at 05:32pm on 09/02/2009
Yeah, I know, it's not always easy. And I do understand the defensive reaction - I've been there myself, I'm sure! I just wish people would see how incredibly unhelpful it is...
 
posted by [identity profile] lobelia321.livejournal.com at 06:15pm on 08/02/2009
When I was little, I had a book called 'Zehn kleine Negerlein'. Ten little negrolets.

I now can't think of what to say about that. It seems you've said it all.

You know, until your rant just now I, also, shrugged off this thing as storm in a pc teacup. Somehow I hadn't realised that it was Carol Thatcher who was saying this. And my mind was changed! Does that mean that in my brain it's okay for a random person to say gollywog but not for the Iron Lady's daughter?

It's all interesting, and somewhat unsettliing, to think about.

 
posted by [identity profile] sheldrake.livejournal.com at 05:43pm on 09/02/2009
Unsettling is the word, I think... hmm, yes.

It's easy to see it as yet another case of OutrageOMG!, there have been so many lately, especially concerning the BBC, but I do think this one was different. Perhaps it's to do with growing up with the word and all its confusing connotations -- I have an instinctive reaction of 'wtf?'. I felt the same about the recent Prince Harry thing. They're words I grew up hearing in the playground and they sting when I hear them, even though they weren't directed at me. It's difficult for me to understand the wail of 'Leave poor Harry/Carol alone!'

Of course, the Thatcher element adds something... I hear the BBC are now being accused of a deliberate campaign against the family, after a couple of mild jokes on QI the other night (a programme recorded in July).

Possible I need to take a holiday from news. Oh wait. I work for a newspaper.
 
posted by [identity profile] lobelia321.livejournal.com at 08:14pm on 10/02/2009
Yes, but is it that kind of a newspaper??

Do you know, I can't even now remember what exactly Harry said. The news succeed each other so fast, it's all a blur. All I recall is that his dad called some fellow polo-playing toff 'Sootie' and that was taken to be a slur on the chap's dusky skin colour, except Sootie is yellow and the chap wasn't Chinese.

Also, I must confess, I care little for what toffs call each other because they're all toffs together and privilege oozes out of their ears.
 
posted by [identity profile] sheldrake.livejournal.com at 08:48pm on 10/02/2009
It's a very annoying kind of a newspaper, is what it is. Actually, it's several newspapers.

Harry was filming his army pals, and he said "And this is our little Paki friend."

except Sootie is yellow and the chap wasn't Chinese.

Perhaps he was a magician?

privilege oozes out of their ears.

This is very true. Although I wish they'd ooze in the privacy of their own homes and not all over me.
 
posted by [identity profile] rossywar.livejournal.com at 08:30pm on 08/02/2009
That whole "it's just a joke!" attitude winds me up - a racist joke is still racist. That's why it's called a racist joke. I think it was quite right of the BBC to sack Carol Thatcher *gets on high horse*: Language and attitudes like that are completely unacceptable in a work-place.
 
posted by [identity profile] sheldrake.livejournal.com at 05:49pm on 09/02/2009
That's why it's called a racist joke.

Yes! I think I said these exact words to Stupid Racist Work Colleague, but she never actually got it.

I was thinkng about this the other night, and why it always comes up. I think it's because in some people's minds, jokes are by default friendly and benign. As long as we're laughing (as long as somebody's laughing) everything's fine. If you're not laughing, it's your problem.

I wonder if the 'just a joke' brigade are the sort of people who didn't get picked on at school?
 
posted by [identity profile] nostoi.livejournal.com at 07:08pm on 22/02/2009
This is the most sensible thing I've heard on this topic. The past is the past - we did a lot of things that we now realise aren't acceptable; having caricatures of black people as toys was one of them.
 
posted by [identity profile] sheldrake.livejournal.com at 08:24pm on 27/02/2009
Thanks, I'm glad you agree. I'm really tired of hearing that such-and-such 'was acceptable' in the past. Some people thought so, yes -- that's not an excuse for continuing to behave that way!

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